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How do you make a rosebush bushier?

Gardening Reference » Gardening in 2006
by thistledown on April 06, 2006 02:39 PM
Hello Everyone! I'm very new here, in fact this is my first post outside the "New Member" area.

I hope this has not already been addressed, I tried to search thoroughly........

My sweetie and I have just bought a new place that came with a horribly neglected rose - at first I thought it was dead! It is only two main stems - more like sticks - that branch off a couple of times each. The total height is about 4ft.

Most advice I seem to find on roses is how to get them to give more blossoms. I am more concerned at this point with encouraging the plant to grow more strongly and robustly (it can make me some pretties later as a thank you!).

I was thinking that if "dead heading" made more flowers, that just letting the buds that are there now to blossom and die and become seedheads would allow the bush to devote its energy on growing itself.

That's probably really dumb, I know, but I don't know what else to do. Should I give it any special food? I am on a budget, but don't want it to die! Also - I don't want to use any chemicals/poisons.

Any help would be GREATLY appreciated by this painfully "noob" noobie!

[Smile]
AT

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Work like you don't need the money.
Sing like nobody's listening.
Dance like nobody's watching.
Love like you've never been hurt.
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by tkhooper on April 06, 2006 08:25 PM
Sounds like it is a long stemmed rose variety. If you have a digital camera take some pictures of the bush and the blooms when it gets some and put it down in mystery plants. Long stem roses don't make a very good looking plant in my opinion but for cut flowers they are the tops.

The other possibility is that it wasn't pruned correctly last year. I'm a beginner too; so, I won't even try to give any advice on how or when to prune.

You can buy rose food to make sure it is getting everything it needs as far as nutrients. I know the rose needs to be watered at ground level making sure that the leaves don't get wet and that none of the dirt gets splashed up onto the bush. Other than that you will probably need to watch carefully for bugs and disease and if they occur treat them immediately while the bush is still healthy.

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by netty on April 06, 2006 11:41 PM
I would give it a good pruning and cut the old blooms off to encourage new growth. There are lots of good rose fertilizers on the market, but I give mine banana peels. [Wink]

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by angelblossom on April 07, 2006 08:52 AM
Netty I agree banana peels and well as used coffee ground are good .. This year I used epson salt just good ol drug store epson salt and sprinkled down and they are bigger than last year..(when I dicovered the plant uses for epson salt I went to a feed and grain store and bought it in bulk) There is a thread on here about epson salt.

Thistledown Do you have ANY new leaves coming out yet? If you do I wouldn't prune back the new growth but would prune back the dead wood But I would stir the dirt up a little and would put any of the above in the dirt as well as bonemeal or blood meal .. could be the soil just needs to be amended...
If you DON"T have any new growth then I would still do the above and prune it back. making sure the'crown' at the base is above the dirt... works for me anyway..
there is a lot of home remedies for roses , where spending $$ isn't absolutely a must..

Hope this has been somewhat helpful there are many here that are OH so wise I've learned soo much ,,
Glad your on board!! [grin]

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Sorrow looks back, Worry looks around, Faith looks up!  -  -
http://photobucket.com/albums/e374/2thtek/  -  -
by hisgal2 on April 07, 2006 10:00 AM
I also put crushed egg shells on the ground around mine. I have problems with slugs on mine sometimes in the early summer. The egg shells will fertilize the soil and will keep the slugs away.

...sorry I can't help with how the plant looks. I'm trying to make one that i have look nicer myself! [Big Grin]

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by Deborah L. on April 07, 2006 10:12 AM
I don't know much about roses, but this is what I do know: To cut off each rose down to the first set of 5 leaves, and to never let the plant develop rose hips as it makes the plant go to seed and not flower. (Or so I've heard).
Also, has anyone seen that nutrient on QVC called,
"Spray n' Grow"? It is as incredible as they say !
I am never without it, and I can now grow things that never did well for me.
It's pricey at about $18 for 20 ounces, but worth every penny.

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by thistledown on April 07, 2006 06:33 PM
Wow! Thanks for all the responses!

No - there are no leaves anywhere at this point.

Not sure what a "crown" is, tried googling it, but got a lot of stuff about the Queen, LOL!

I'm hoping that the fact it has hung onto life despite being basically ignored for more than a year (perhaps several years) means it's a strong gal! But what's boggled me about the pruning thing is that it's basically, well, two sticks. I can make the sticks shorter, but the tiny buds are very close to the ends of the sticks, so I'd lose them. The branches do fork a couple of times, but if I cut those off I'd REALLY have just two sticks!

The labels on all the rose foods I see talk about making lots of flowers - I want lots of branches! Would those foods work anyway? Would I just have to keep pinching off the buds to force the nutrients to stay in the wood itself? I only want the flowers it has to blossom now for identification purposes.

Sorry to be such a dum-dum!

[Smile]
AT

...........I'm scared of banana peels, eggshells, and coffee grounds as there are skunks and raccoons here that rip apart the garbage if you don't keep it locked. I'm afraid they would dig up the rose....

* * * *
Work like you don't need the money.
Sing like nobody's listening.
Dance like nobody's watching.
Love like you've never been hurt.
 -
by weezie13 on April 07, 2006 09:54 PM
Hellooooooo Thistledown,
You've been given some greattttt advice on your roses'... each one has some great info on it...

What Angelblossom/Diane, told you about the Crown, is... the crown, is where the base of the plant comes out of the ground... (sometimes that's a grafted plant.. where it's grafted to another type of rose, so the roots are hardy to grow in your area....)

And when Diane/Angelblossom told you to push the dirt up around the base of the crown/plant ***Take that soil from somewhe'res else, don't take the dirt from actually around your plant, cause you need alot...*
RIGHT NOW IS THE TIME TO DO IT..
Mound it right up, say, 5" high at least *depends on the type of rose, like don't bury a miniature rose completely if it's no higher than 5"...

But mound that soil up, right now, and let it sit,
also scratch in some of that EPSOM SALT, that was mentioned...

In combination with the Epsom salts, which will encourage basal growth, so will the mounding of the dirt encourage new growth from the basal
area...NEW BRANCHES/STEMS FROM UNDER GROUND...

Around the time you see good new growth coming out of the ground, about say 2" or 3" out of the soil, then pull the soil away from the base again,
**Do this gently and be mindful of THORNS, they are under that dirt..**

And scratch the Epsom salt into the soil like the begining of each month.. but only for the months of April 1st, May 1st, June 1st, July 1st....
Nothing past August, cause you DO NOTTTTTTT WANT NEW GROWTH PAST THAT MONTH..that's the time you want your rose to go nightie~night!!

And Welcome by the way, we're very glad you found us.. Grab a chair and stick around, ther'es a nice Cyber Gardening Family here.. and lot's to do here thru every season..

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Weezie

Don't forget to be kind to strangers. For some who have
done this have entertained angels without realizing it.
- Bible - Hebrews 13:2

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http://photobucket.com/albums/y250/weezie13/
by weezie13 on April 07, 2006 10:04 PM
quote:
...........I'm scared of banana peels, eggshells, and coffee grounds as there are skunks and raccoons here that rip apart the garbage if you don't keep it locked. I'm afraid they would dig up the rose....

Learn how to COMPOST..
There's lot's of info here on compost, and composting, and it's wonderful for every plant you own, and it cuts down on garbage going to the curb, and gives you great excercise and outdoor activities....
That way all that stuff goes into a pile that they can't really get into...

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Weezie

Don't forget to be kind to strangers. For some who have
done this have entertained angels without realizing it.
- Bible - Hebrews 13:2

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http://photobucket.com/albums/y250/weezie13/
by thistledown on April 08, 2006 05:21 AM
Aha! Thanks for the explanation, Weezie!

So, mounding the dirt around the main branching off point (which is the crown, right?) kinda turns it into root and it'll send up more shoots? Cool!

Got some epsom salts! And I'm contacting the local Bear Aware organization for info on bear-proof composters!
Yay! I'm doing gardening stuff!

[Smile]
AT

* * * *
Work like you don't need the money.
Sing like nobody's listening.
Dance like nobody's watching.
Love like you've never been hurt.
 -
by weezie13 on April 08, 2006 05:39 AM
Make sure you pull that dirt away though,
after you see those new canes come up thru...
*give them a chance to peak thru, but once longer then 2" or 3", it needs to come off....
**and like stated above, watch fingers, there's ouchies in there** [Wink]

And for the bear proof compost, just don't put any food scrap's into it...
Mayyyyyyyyyybe, if you're really into it, and you like the compost and you still want to use your food scrap's, find another way to render down the food...
***if you can afford it, there's a lovely, lovely INDOOR composter,
**I'd do just about anything to get my hands on one** and you could try that, and that stuff is great too...***

Pleaasssssssseeeee let us know how you're doing,
we [Cool] love [Love] to hear [gabby] updates [critic] !! Good [angel] or bad [devil] ,
that's how we all learn.. [teacher]

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Weezie

Don't forget to be kind to strangers. For some who have
done this have entertained angels without realizing it.
- Bible - Hebrews 13:2

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http://photobucket.com/albums/y250/weezie13/
by thistledown on April 09, 2006 06:46 AM
quote:
Originally posted by weezie13:
Make sure you pull that dirt away though,
after you see those new canes come up thru...
*give them a chance to peak thru, but once longer then 2" or 3", it needs to come off....
**and like stated above, watch fingers, there's ouchies in there** [Wink]

Step by step directions! Thanks so much! Very important to those of us who know NOTHING!

All the other wonderful responses I received are starting to make sense to me. I was too confused at first!

THANK YOU EVERYONE!
[Cool]

[Smile]
AT

* * * *
Work like you don't need the money.
Sing like nobody's listening.
Dance like nobody's watching.
Love like you've never been hurt.
 -
by weezie13 on April 09, 2006 10:12 AM
quote:
Originally posted by thistledown:

Step by step directions! Thanks so much! Very important to those of us who know NOTHING!
[/QUOTE]
We were all beginners at some point of gardening..
All of us... and it's very nice to be able to help a new gardener out...

A motto to live by is...

"You should listen to other's mistakes....
You can't possibly live long enough to make they all yourself..."

And any advice I give, it's usually first hand [Embarrassed] ....

But we are always glad to help..
**and in turn, when you become what you feel comfortable with in helping and teaching others, we hope you'll stay and help other new gardener's as... even if it's just encouragement in the very begining...***

I had a pretty knowledgable set of parents when it came to gardening... but alot I've learned by beining dilagent, if anything else... even if I'm behind and very slow.. I'm dilagent to watch my gardens and what happens when this is done, or that is done, from season to season...

quote:
Originally posted by thistledown:

All the other wonderful responses I received are starting to make sense to me. I was too confused at first!

And don't be afraid to re~ask something, if it just doesn't jive right... sometimes wording or conflicting or like you said, lot'sssssssss of info can boggle you..
but we're here to help!!! And we don't mind clarifing... [thumb]

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Weezie

Don't forget to be kind to strangers. For some who have
done this have entertained angels without realizing it.
- Bible - Hebrews 13:2

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http://photobucket.com/albums/y250/weezie13/
by Mandyz on April 13, 2006 04:08 AM
quote:
Originally posted by weezie13:

Mayyyyyyyyyybe, if you're really into it, and you like the compost and you still want to use your food scrap's, find another way to render down the food...
***if you can afford it, there's a lovely, lovely INDOOR composter,

You can read more in the organics section and all the compost discussions, but just a quick note that you don't need to *buy* an indoor composter. You can create a simple vermicomposter with a rubbermaid bin (and if you just moved, maybe you have a bunch of those leftover like we did) and a boot tray.
by kyjoy on April 14, 2006 12:00 AM
Since it is an older rose, when and if it leafs out, check to see if the growth is coming from above or below the bud union. If it is coming from below, the rose has gone "wild" and you want to get rid of it anyway.
by morninglori on April 18, 2006 09:32 AM
Yep, I agree with KyJoy. If your rose is an original "earth rose" , ie, not grafted, then hack that baby back to the first branching (about 1 foot off the ground) and it'll put plenty of shoots off for you.)

If it is grafted, and bolting (weird wild rose coming off your rose), then just dig that sucker up because it is long gone.

I have hacked my roses down to practically kill them and they repay me by looking far better that spring than they did before. The exception is a rambling rose. (cutting that back will usually make it not bloom that year..but not always).
by thistledown on April 19, 2006 02:23 PM
quote:
Originally posted by weezie13:
We were all beginners at some point of gardening..
All of us... and it's very nice to be able to help a new gardener out...
............................and in turn, when you become what you feel comfortable with in helping and teaching others, we hope you'll stay and help other new gardener's as... even if it's just encouragement in the very begining...***

Thank you! I'm afraid it might be *quite* a while before I'm in a position to help anyone, but I look forward to contributing whatever I can!

quote:
.......alot I've learned by beining dilagent, if anything else... even if I'm behind and very slow.. I'm dilagent to watch my gardens and what happens when this is done, or that is done, from season to season...

Yes, yes! I have begun a Garden Journal (a real one - not a virtual/internet one LOL!). I am keeping a daily journal of flowers and plants I have seen and what my book/internet research has found. Also writing down what's going on with the plants in the yard, when the snow finally melted, when the Larch started budding etc. I am hoping this will "tune me in" and help me next year. Maybe. ~~sigh~~ You give me hope that this isn't a waste of time! Everyone at work says just buy a bunch of stuff, stick it in the ground and see what dies! That's not my nature! Too jumbled!

quote:
Originally posted by Mandyz:
.....You can create a simple vermicomposter with a rubbermaid bin (and if you just moved, maybe you have a bunch of those leftover like we did) and a boot tray.
ROFL!! We DO have a bunch of rubbermaid bins! Something to think about, thanks!

quote:
Originally posted by kyjoy:
Since it is an older rose, when and if it leafs out, check to see if the growth is coming from above or below the bud union. If it is coming from below, the rose has gone "wild" and you want to get rid of it anyway.
quote:
Originally posted by morninglori:
.......If it is grafted, and bolting (weird wild rose coming off your rose), then just dig that sucker up because it is long gone......
Wild = Bad? Ummm...all the wild roses I've seen were beautiful. Simple, but beautiful. Is there something horrible about wild roses? Do they take over, or strangle other plants? I'm confused....
..?

[Smile]
AT

* * * *
Work like you don't need the money.
Sing like nobody's listening.
Dance like nobody's watching.
Love like you've never been hurt.
 -
by weezie13 on April 19, 2006 10:08 PM
I have a wild rose, right at the base of my son's window....( [devil] [lala] cause he'll get scratched by it and eaten alive if he tries to climb out of the window... or he tries to sneak girls in later on when it gets older ... [grin] I got it covered!) [Wink] [Wink]

It is pretty, they have clusters of white flowers, and I leave the canes longggggggg, and in the fall/winter it has rose hips *seed pods* and they are beautiful red...

Then I agressly cute it down in the spring,

but the thorns are vicious!!!!
Watch yourself when when pruning..
The thorns don't hurt when you stick your hand in,
but they gouge you when you come out, the thorns
are pointed at a curl backwards...*probably for
climbing and hanging from in the wild*

but don't underestimate it when I'm near it...

I have a picture somewheres', remind me someday to post it.. *I think I have to find it first and put it in my Photobucket...*

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Weezie

Don't forget to be kind to strangers. For some who have
done this have entertained angels without realizing it.
- Bible - Hebrews 13:2

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http://photobucket.com/albums/y250/weezie13/
by tkhooper on April 19, 2006 11:13 PM
Wild roses don't shape into bushes at all well. They are usually very long canes as Weezie mentioned. You could of course keep it around and practice grafting on it once you get going on your gardening.

I know you say that's many years away. I did too last year when I started. Now I have a miniature rose cutting sitting on top of my refrigerator. And I have four of them growing out in my garden. And yes I said growing not dying. There is gardening magic here at the forum and I've been happily benefiting from it since I joined last year in March.

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by thistledown on April 20, 2006 09:07 AM
Well, I'm just sitting down to the computer with my gardening boots on, and I've just finished pruning the rose and mounding the earth around it (mixed with epsom salts) as advised! YIPPEE!

I think maybe the whole "wildrose" thing *might* be happening. I had a hard time exposing the crown as there were clumps of tough grass everywhere.
There is definately a "main" bush, and a short thick branch coming up from the ground away from it with another very sturdy,stubby branch coming off of it. The short stubby branch has few thorns, but they are aggressive looking! The main large bush (well what passes for a bush) has millions of tiny thorns, interspersed with larger ones.
Anyway, we shall see!
If it is wild, I'll have to decide if I want the "scraggly" look!

[Smile]
AT
.....I'm off to post a question about bulbs! Wish me luck!

* * * *
Work like you don't need the money.
Sing like nobody's listening.
Dance like nobody's watching.
Love like you've never been hurt.
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by Deborah L. on April 28, 2006 04:55 PM
AT, you made me smile tonight, reading this post where you said, "Yay ! I'm doing gardening stuff !"
That's exactly how I feel !
That was just really a cute thing to say.

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by thistledown on May 03, 2006 03:37 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Deborah L.:
AT, you made me smile tonight, reading this post where you said, "Yay ! I'm doing gardening stuff !"
That's exactly how I feel !
That was just really a cute thing to say.

~~smiley, smiley~~ I can't help it! I got plastic pots today with little plastic saucer things for underneath! YAHOOO!
And I got gloves with rough rubbery stuff on them to stop thorns! Gardening accessories! [thumb]

Well, I don't see any shoots coming from the dirt yet (hmm...okay, a little too soon - I realize that!), but the buds have unfurled into lovely clusters of leaves!

They don't look like dead sticks anymore!

TTTTTHHHHAAANNNKKK YYOOUUU AAALLLLLLLL!!!
[perplexed] [kissies] [Cool] [flower]

[Smile]
AT

* * * *
Work like you don't need the money.
Sing like nobody's listening.
Dance like nobody's watching.
Love like you've never been hurt.
 -
by weezie13 on May 03, 2006 04:15 PM
I was thinkin' of this post earlier today..
Mine are peakin' red stems out of the dirt....
but you may be a wee~bit colder than I am here..
*what growing zone are you??*

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Weezie

Don't forget to be kind to strangers. For some who have
done this have entertained angels without realizing it.
- Bible - Hebrews 13:2

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http://photobucket.com/albums/y250/weezie13/
by thistledown on May 03, 2006 05:07 PM
quote:
Originally posted by weezie13:
......you may be a wee~bit colder than I am here..
*what growing zone are you??*

All the maps I can find show my area as Zone 5, but we are at a higher elevation than the folks are in town. I've noticed people in my area have their tulips up, but still tightly closed. In town they are open. Also, people in town have pansies living happily in their gardens, not up here. The only flowers open here are Hyacinths (I'd like to say I knew what they were, but I googled them [Confused] ).

[Smile]
AT

* * * *
Work like you don't need the money.
Sing like nobody's listening.
Dance like nobody's watching.
Love like you've never been hurt.
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