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Dracaena-propagating-Time to repot yet?

Gardening Reference » Gardening in 2005
Pages: 1 2
by Kath-pdx on July 25, 2005 06:08 AM
Hello! I recently (6 weeks ago exactly... I marked "dracaena surgery" on my calendar!!) topped a severely leggy & virtually horizontal stalk of one of my favorite dracaenas. Now, as well as making stem cuttings from sections of the stalk, I also put the very top 10 inches in water.
What I'm wondering about is when is it time to put the water-rooted (little star-roots [nub-like] showing, nothing long) top into soil? It is doing well in the water - even has new growth!! But I don't want to put it into soil too soon (or too late, or too deep, or too not perfect.. [Roll Eyes] )
And that point about "too deep" is another question - I put this top into about 6-8" of water - the root-buds are mostly towards the top section, though also several down at the bottom section. Can I re-cut this stalk so that I'm not hving to plant it 8" deep.. but cut the stalk again to ... maybe only 4 inches????

Thanks so much for the great forum!!
Kath

* * * *
Never accept an invitation from a stranger unless he offers you candy.--Linda Festa
by Jiffymouse on July 26, 2005 12:57 AM
i don't usually put mine in water at all. i just plop mine down in the dirt next to the "mother" plant and it will take off. that way, i am watering it the same, and it is getting the same amount of light.
by Will Creed on July 26, 2005 06:50 AM
Hi Kathy,

I am a little surprised that you don't have any actual roots developed after 6 weeks in water. It may be because of the length of the cutting. Short tip cuttings develop roots more readily than older stemmed cuttings.

As a general rule, it is best to wait until the roots are about an inch long before moving it to soil. Use a small pot and put about an inch of soil under the roots.

You can cut off the lower portion of the stem without a problem.
by Kath-pdx on July 26, 2005 09:14 PM
Thanks Will!
That makes a lot of sense... it's getting water from too much 'surface area'.... I'll trim the stem!

Thank you
Kath

* * * *
Never accept an invitation from a stranger unless he offers you candy.--Linda Festa
by Kath-pdx on July 31, 2005 10:40 AM
Another propagation question... now on to the stem cuttings (maybe two questions)
First of all... since I think I did this wrong for one stem and not the other -> I've seen instructions for placing the stem on moist soil with "buds up"... How can you tell which way to lay a stem? I couldn't see anything different on one side from the other. And I figured that since the parent stem that is left often sprouts two (diamentreically opposed) branches, how could it matter how I layed the stem in the dirt? But, sure enough - one of my sprouts had to travel 180' round to come out on top. Can you tell me how to tell a "bud"??

And now that the sprouts have "real leaves", can I cut (shorten) the canes that are now sprouting before putting them in their new pot? (E.g., if whole cane is 4", but sprout is flush to one end, can I/should I trim the stem to 2"..???)

THANKS.
Kath

* * * *
Never accept an invitation from a stranger unless he offers you candy.--Linda Festa
by Will Creed on July 31, 2005 09:25 PM
Hi Kathy,

Evidently, you have propagated your Dracaena stem cuttings by putting sections of them on top of moist soil. In that case, there is no right side up and you neededn't wory about bud locations. Clearly you have been successful in getting new shoots.

Are there any roots that have grown down into the moist soil? If so, be careful not to damage them.

Yes, you can cut off the excess stem. Transplant your cuttings into very small pots until their roots have developed fully.
by Kath-pdx on August 01, 2005 02:30 AM
Thanks so much Will! This is all so exciting & gratifying since I have realized I reeeeally love my dracaenas! (And the mother plant has finally revealed a green nub that is going to be a new branch, too! So there is new life abounding!)

I'm not sure about roots yet, as I haven't jostled the stem cuttings in the slightest yet since laying them on the moist soil & tenting them. I'll gently check to find out just where the roots are on the two different stems. I'm about to make a trip to the nursery and get potting soil and some small pots...(among other things.. of course. ...Nurseries are such lovely dangerous places to go!! $!)

Oh - would it be recommended to keep the new starts tented for humidity for a while, or should they start now to get acclimated to the indoor air - since they have 'real leaves'?

And since you discourage repotting, after the roots are established in very small pots, I still assume I should then move them into more permanent pots that will last them for, what, a couple of years? Is that about the right minimum timing for repotting?

(Sorry to be so verbose! This is just all so satisfying, and your help is so.. Spot On!!! [clappy] )

THANKS Will!
Kath

* * * *
Never accept an invitation from a stranger unless he offers you candy.--Linda Festa
by Will Creed on August 01, 2005 03:08 AM
Hi Kath,

It's great to share your enthusiasm! You have done a great job so far. [clappy]

If your stem cuttings have roots about an inch long, then you can gradually start opening up and removing the plastic tent over the course of about a week. When the roots are sufficiently mature they are able to absorb and supply the plant with moisture that it requires, making the tent unnecessary.

I discourage unnecessary or premature repotting. Potting up is a lot like getting bigger shoes for kids. It may be a nuisance, but you up-pot only when the roots have really filled the pot with a tight rootball. And then you move the plant up one size only. The timing depends on just how crowded the roots are. My rule of thumb is that the pot should be large enough to keep the soil moist for at least three days. If not, then it is time to up-pot. Otherwise, resist the urge to repot.

Do you have any photos to share with us?
by Kath-pdx on August 01, 2005 05:14 AM
I'm sure you should be afraid to ask me for more information... If I overuse 'word space', I'm sure about to overuse photo space big time..!

Let me see if I even know how to post photos...
http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a222/kathpdx/DracaenaSprouts1.jpg [The middle 'log' here is the bottom portion of the water-submerged stem that I recently shortened. This might not be a great idea, but I just thought I'd put in on the moist soil and see...)
Another photo including the sprouting root buds on the top of the cut plant: http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a222/kathpdx/DracaenaSprouts2.jpg
Maybe this shows how well the Top is doing: http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a222/kathpdx/DracaenaGrowth1.jpg

Mom plant and bud:
mom: http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a222/kathpdx/DracaenaParent.jpg
Bud (right of center, just above angel) http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a222/kathpdx/DracaenaBud.jpg

I hope this works. If not I'll try to edit & correct.

* * * *
Never accept an invitation from a stranger unless he offers you candy.--Linda Festa
by Will Creed on August 01, 2005 08:23 AM
Hi Kath,

Great photo posting job and even better horticultural work! That is an excellent example of a propagating technique that is not often used. I hope it will encourage others to try it with long stems that they have removed from their Dracaenas. You are now the Designated Expert in Dracaena propagation.

Before you cut off any of the stems to make them smaller, check to see if the stems have put down roots all along the stem.

Thanks for taking the trouble to get the photos posted for all to see.
by Kath-pdx on August 01, 2005 12:30 PM
Stay tuned. I will try to post photos of our (my plants) progession.

I want to somehow acknowledge the help in posting photos (I can't remember the search I used in this forum) but try this ...
\http://www.thegardenhelper.com/cgi-bin/ubb/cgi/ultimatebb.cgi/topic/4/1403.html?

Hopefully this will take you to the thread that gave me the options about posting photos.

* * * *
Never accept an invitation from a stranger unless he offers you candy.--Linda Festa
by weezie13 on August 01, 2005 12:37 PM
Kath-pdx,
This one??????????????
Help me with my African Violets!!

* * * *
Weezie

Don't forget to be kind to strangers. For some who have
done this have entertained angels without realizing it.
- Bible - Hebrews 13:2

 -
 -
 -

http://photobucket.com/albums/y250/weezie13/
by Kath-pdx on August 01, 2005 12:45 PM
Weezie,
THAT's that one with the link to how to post photos! Just gotta scroll down.
Thanks!
Kath

* * * *
Never accept an invitation from a stranger unless he offers you candy.--Linda Festa
by weezie13 on August 01, 2005 12:45 PM
Anytime!!! [thumb] [thumb] [thumb] [flower]

* * * *
Weezie

Don't forget to be kind to strangers. For some who have
done this have entertained angels without realizing it.
- Bible - Hebrews 13:2

 -
 -
 -

http://photobucket.com/albums/y250/weezie13/
by weezie13 on August 01, 2005 12:48 PM
Direct link to the help with posting
photos'!!!
Direct link to help with posting photo's....

* * * *
Weezie

Don't forget to be kind to strangers. For some who have
done this have entertained angels without realizing it.
- Bible - Hebrews 13:2

 -
 -
 -

http://photobucket.com/albums/y250/weezie13/
by Cricket on August 01, 2005 04:41 PM
Hi Kath,

I was unaware that it is possible to propagate using your technique. Thank you for posting photos; a picture truly is worth 1000 words!

Cricket
by phoenix on August 02, 2005 01:26 AM
[wayey] Kath-pdx,
here is a photo of mine
 -

I too have been thinking of starting more. Dracaena is one of my favorites too [Wink] [grin]

* * * *
 -
 -
http://photobucket.com/albums/y203/lilpuppolo/
"If you want to talk bollocks and discuss the meaning of life,you're better off downing a bottle of whiskey.That way you're drunk by the time you start to take yourself seriously"
by Kath-pdx on August 02, 2005 08:18 AM
Phoenix - Nice NICE dracaena! My 'mom plant' is in a pot about the same size, now I just need to get it better light during the winter so it doesn't again grow parallel to the ground! I'm hoping for it to look as good as yours!

Cricket - glad you liked the photos. I realized I'd forgotten to include the "tented" version... The pot I have the canes laying in happens to be perfect for a zip lock baggie to fit snuggly over:
http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a222/kathpdx/TentedDracaena.jpg

Also the 'soil' I have them in/on is 1/2 peat & 1/2 sand. I read that recipe somewhere and it seems to have worked!

Oh, Will - I just checked for roots: I don't see any except on one cane - and its at the far oposite end to the new sprout. I assume I should just leave them be in the tent/on the moist soil until ... until I see more? And .. what if I halved the 4" canes now.. would I risk the baby plants?
I guess one option I have is to, when they're ready, put the whole 4" in a new pot. That will just be a bigger first pot than I'd planned. Whatcha think?

Kath

* * * *
Never accept an invitation from a stranger unless he offers you candy.--Linda Festa
by Will Creed on August 02, 2005 09:18 AM
Hi Kath,

I don't have a very good answer for you. The roots and the foliage cannot be severed. So you seem to be stuck with this 4-inch horizontal stem between them.

You could insert the stem into a pot vertically with the rooted end in the soil. Initially the foliage head would be growing horizontally, but eventually it will orient itself in an upward direction.

You could also leave it as is and perhaps you will get more foliage heads to develop midway along the stem.

Let is know what you decide and be sure to take photos.
by phoenix on August 02, 2005 09:24 AM
Thanks Kath,
It didn't always look so good. I rescued it from one of the cell phone stores i worked at. When i brought it home it was in pretty rough shape. No body was taking care of it. The poor thing had not been watered properly and there was hardly any soil in the pot. Once it established it's self to my house i repotted it and it grew like mad.

* * * *
 -
 -
http://photobucket.com/albums/y203/lilpuppolo/
"If you want to talk bollocks and discuss the meaning of life,you're better off downing a bottle of whiskey.That way you're drunk by the time you start to take yourself seriously"
by phoenix on August 02, 2005 09:25 AM
quote:
You could insert the stem into a pot vertically with the rooted end in the soil. Initially the foliage head would be growing horizontally, but eventually it will orient itself in an upward direction
I think I would go this route though [Wink] You can always trust Mr. Creed [thumb]

* * * *
 -
 -
http://photobucket.com/albums/y203/lilpuppolo/
"If you want to talk bollocks and discuss the meaning of life,you're better off downing a bottle of whiskey.That way you're drunk by the time you start to take yourself seriously"
by Kath-pdx on August 02, 2005 09:59 AM
quote:
Originally posted by phoenix:
[QUOTE]I think I would go this route though [Wink] You can always trust Mr. Creed [thumb]
So I am discovering. Can someone make sure his contract here is air tight??

* * * *
Never accept an invitation from a stranger unless he offers you candy.--Linda Festa
by Will Creed on August 03, 2005 05:52 AM
I am floating on air from these wonderful compliments! Thank you Phoenix and Kath-PDX.

Will
by Kath-pdx on August 03, 2005 01:42 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Will Creed:

You could also leave it as is and perhaps you will get more foliage heads to develop midway along the stem.

The more I think about it I think I'm going to take his Other advice! (Nice of Will to offer choices!)

* * * *
Never accept an invitation from a stranger unless he offers you candy.--Linda Festa
by Will Creed on August 08, 2005 08:50 AM
Mother Nature offers the choices. I just try to point them out!
by JoHolland84 on August 09, 2005 02:41 AM
Hi there

I am very new to plants and growing techniques. Someone I know with a Dracaena plant has told me to pot it when it has grown roots... it is now just over a year old and still has no roots. Originally the instructions were to keep in in a small pot with water. When do I pot it???

Also, some of its leaves have turned brown but most are still green, do I just take these dead leaves off for regrowth? Or leave them?

I hope someone can help me...

Thanks,

Jo
by Will Creed on August 09, 2005 07:05 AM
Hi Jo,

I am glad that you inquired BEFORE you repotted. [Smile] When to repot is the most commonly misunderstood concept in caring for potted plants. [Frown]

Potted plants do best when they are quite rootbound. How do you tell when it is TOO rootbound and in need of a larger pot?

Water your D. marginata thoroughly (until a little water runs through the drainage holes). Then check the soil after 3 days. If the top quarter of the soil feels very dry, then it is probably time to put it into a pot one size larger.

If the top quarter of the soil does not feel dry after 3 days, then it does not need a larger pot and it will not need water until the soil reaches that level of dryness.
by Cricket on August 09, 2005 08:48 AM
Hi Jo,

Your post suggests you have a dracaena cutting that you have been trying to root in water for a year now. Is that correct? I don't know much about rooting dracaenas but it seems that a year is excessively lengthy for roots to develop.

Do you know what kind of dracaena it is?

Cricket
by Celena0056 on August 09, 2005 11:41 AM
Hey~
just wondering, does anyone else just propagate their Dracaena Fragans with rooting hormones?
by JoHolland84 on August 09, 2005 04:53 PM
Hi again

Thanks for your help so far, I think it is a Dracaena fragrans Massangeana. Does that make sense? It has gained lots of leaves but the main trunk has not grown (i dont know if its meant to) and there are no roots after a year.

Thanks again,

Jo
by Cricket on August 10, 2005 06:26 AM
Hi Jo,

Dracaena fragrans Massangeana is commonly known as "Corn Plant". Has it been in water the entire year while you are waiting for roots? Wow, that is a long time to wait for root development!

Will Creed or someone else knowledgeable about Corn plant propagation will be able to better advise you but if the cutting has new growth I wouldn't give up hope. I have a Dracaena Sanderiana (more commonly known as Lucky Bamboo) cutting that is only just beginning to root after months in water.
by JoHolland84 on August 10, 2005 04:18 PM
Great, thanks very much for your help! I have some hope now that it will still grow roots. Yes, it has been in water the whole year without root development. Ill see what happens to it.

Thanks again for all your help.

Jo
by Kath-pdx on August 16, 2005 10:43 AM
Hi all...
I just thought I would update you on the progress of the original two stems, one stem from the shortened water-submerged top, and the new branch on the mom plant.
Sorry some of these are not in good focus. I thought I knew how to use macro mode..but I guess I need a steadier hand.

The 'setting':
http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a222/kathpdx/4da5d480.jpg

The sprouted logs (all three!)
http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a222/kathpdx/bd4b19ee.jpg

the baby on the mom-plant:
http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a222/kathpdx/7c543310.jpg

I'm about to pot the 2 original stems ("logs"), and will be putting them in their new small pots root down, 'branch' up even though this will make them initially horizontal. It'll get itself oriented soon enough (i hope.)

* * * *
Never accept an invitation from a stranger unless he offers you candy.--Linda Festa
by weezie13 on August 16, 2005 10:50 AM
Kath,
Just have to pop in here,
been following the thread,
you did very nice work!!!
All three look great and healthy!!!

* * * *
Weezie

Don't forget to be kind to strangers. For some who have
done this have entertained angels without realizing it.
- Bible - Hebrews 13:2

 -
 -
 -

http://photobucket.com/albums/y250/weezie13/
by Will Creed on August 17, 2005 04:36 AM
[clappy]
by Kath-pdx on August 18, 2005 11:31 AM
Let me ask a question about etiquette here. I want to keep showing the progress of the various offspring of this propagation effort. (I'm very excited how all the forms are taking off!) Should I start a new thread, or is it okay to keep adding it on here?
If I was new here and (important point) interested in the topic, I guess I would like seeing the thread intact. However, maybe I'm just in my own private little excited-about-my-dracaenas world!
(I have new pictures, but I'm going to wait for the community to let me know how to behave!! [Embarrassed] )

Kath

* * * *
Never accept an invitation from a stranger unless he offers you candy.--Linda Festa
by Will Creed on August 19, 2005 04:37 AM
Kath.....,

I think your behavior is exemplary and your photo contributions enlightening. But I am not the arbiter of content here; just another User like you.

There are a number of Hostesses here (never Hosts, for some reason!) who will inform you of thread guidelines.
by weezie13 on August 19, 2005 05:13 AM
For me, I like to have a continual thread,
so, any one looking for info can find it in
one post... but, also if you start a second thread
to link this post with the first post, so any
one new coming along can also follow your
awesome job and pictures..
(and I can imagine the excitement of getting
them growing...plants have a way of doing that to you) [kissies] [flower] [grin]

So, you pick!!!
Continue on this one, or start a whole new one,
and link it here to this one..
*pm if you don't know how or I will link it for you*

* * * *
Weezie

Don't forget to be kind to strangers. For some who have
done this have entertained angels without realizing it.
- Bible - Hebrews 13:2

 -
 -
 -

http://photobucket.com/albums/y250/weezie13/
by Kath-pdx on August 20, 2005 09:02 AM
Egg-sail-ant! I'll continue here. As soon as I upload my other photos! THANKS Weez!!

* * * *
Never accept an invitation from a stranger unless he offers you candy.--Linda Festa
by Kath-pdx on August 22, 2005 12:40 PM
Okay, then.. here are the promised results (so far)!

These photos are the resulting three (of soon to be 4) now-potted plants that have come from the stem cuttings and top of my originally too-horizontal dracaena stock.

I think I'm delighted with the way this 'top' looks, it should be a very interesing plant, don't ya think?!
http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a222/kathpdx/PICT0004_1.jpg
I'll be keeping it aiming toward (and working for) the light to bring it back toward & over the pot.

And the stem cuttings -
here they are just freshly potted, temporarily tented, and completely horizontal:
http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a222/kathpdx/Justpotted.jpg

And HERE they are, just a few days later... straightening right up!!
http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a222/kathpdx/8-21DracBabies.jpg

I have one more section of log/stem that has sprouted and it will probably be ready to be planted in a week or two.

This is AMAZING! I never would have guessed that propagation could be so fun & easy!! (Not to mention.. sooooo satisfying!)

* * * *
Never accept an invitation from a stranger unless he offers you candy.--Linda Festa
by Kath-pdx on August 29, 2005 04:12 AM
New problem?? Maybe need a new post, but I'll try here first...

I think my "outdoor vacation" for my adult dracaena has resulted in it being top heavy. You can see the change from the end of July to the end of Aug... I now have another "horizontal" stalk. Am I going to have to conduct surgery again or can I PROP IT UP?

JULY:
 -

And NOW, end of August:
 -

AND if I ought to consider propagation surgery, [Frown] will the time of year affect this? Moving into fall... slower success of stem cuttings?
I would like to make an educated choice. [Confused]

I know I read somewhere (from Will I think) that putting a Dracaena outside and the stalk and leaves will get thicker. This is obviously true which I tried to capture here (on July 17th).

 -

My good intentions may have gone awry.... [scaredy] [shocked]

* * * *
Never accept an invitation from a stranger unless he offers you candy.--Linda Festa
by Will Creed on August 29, 2005 05:42 AM
Hi Kath...,

For a 5-month old, you take excellent photos!

Your previously posted photos are excellent examples of your propagation technique and success. They also demonstrate the power of photo-tropism or the power of light (the sun) to influence the direction of growth. Actually, I liked the little guys when they were in plastic and confronting each other head-on.

In your recent photos, we see Mother Nature following her perfectly logical course. When plants are moved to better conditions (in this case better light outside), the NEW growth comes in much stronger and thicker. However, the OLD growth is already established and remains weaker and thinner. So the top of your Marginata is now too heavy for the lower, thinner stem to maintain in an upright position. That's why it is leaning.

If you let Nature follow her course, the stem will bend way down to the horizontal or below and then the top will continue to orient itself upward. The result will be an interesting, undulating stem. Some growers manipulate this process deliberately in order to create interesting curves in Marginata stems. They are then able to sell them at premium prices.

If you prefer the vertical look, then the solution is to cut back the stem in question to a height of 12 inches or less. That will eliminate most of the lower (weaker) stem. The new growth after that (assuming you can continue to provide good light) will be stronger and thicker and better able to maintain a vertical position. Of course, the problem is that you will soon have to move it back inside where the light is reduced. Now if you were to add a greenhouse to your house, then this wouldn't matter!

I hope I haven't made this too complicated or exceeded the space limits, but you seem to have an inquisitive mind to go along with your green thumb and photography skills!

Let me know if you need clarity.
by Will Creed on August 29, 2005 08:39 AM
Some further thoughts.

You can move the leaning stem to a vertical position and then pack the soil in tight around it to hold it vertical. You may need to repeat this every week or two, but it looks better than crutches.

Check for spider mites. I do see some dust particles and webby stuff (thanks to your excellent photography!) that might be spider mites. Marginatas are very mite prone.
by Kath-pdx on August 30, 2005 10:51 PM
A SUN ROOM! What a Great Idea! [grin]
How funny you should mention.. I am really trying to work on that right now!! But at the rate my lender is responding I don't know if I'll get it before NEXT spring! [perplexed] Guess I'll have to conduct surgery again, cuz my home light is awwwweful! [Eek!]
by Kath-pdx on August 30, 2005 10:53 PM
quote:
Check for spider mites. I do see some dust particles and webby stuff (thanks to your excellent photography!) that might be spider mites.
I will check! Hopefully that webby stuff is just a dandylion weed seed ...

Out comes the Fertilome RTU!! [Mad] Get them critters off!!!

* * * *
Never accept an invitation from a stranger unless he offers you candy.--Linda Festa
by Will Creed on August 31, 2005 05:23 AM
A sunroom is a terrific idea for your plants [Wink] , if not for your bank account. [Frown] Be sure to post photos.

What is Fertilome? What are the active ingredients?
by Kath-pdx on August 31, 2005 07:21 AM
Ferti*lome "triple action plus RTU" (It was sold to my by someone I trust)
has as active ingredients:
Pyrethrins .02%
Piperonyl Butoxide, Technical .20%
Clarified Hydrophobic Extract of Neem Oil .90%
+Other 98.88%

"Broad spectrum insecticide, fungicide, and miticide for control of insects, diseases and mites on vegetables fuits, nuts, herbs, spices, roses, flowers and shrubs. Can be used up to day of harvest."

Can I use this safely? [shocked] [grin] [Roll Eyes]

I got it initially for a new (in large pot) maple that was struggling... or at least looking peeked.
by Will Creed on August 31, 2005 07:39 AM
Despite the "Triple Action" hyperbole, Fertilome is a weak pesticide that is probably no more effective then non-pesticide treatments such as soap, alcohol, and horticultural oil. (BTW, RTU is not a secret ingredient; it is code language for Ready-To-Use).

As pesticides go, this one is relatively safe, assuming you follow the precautions listed in very fine print.

I don't recommend using broad spectrum pesticides. Use a pesticide that is designated for the specific pest that you are trying to control. Why add more fungicide to the environment if you are just trying to control spider mites?
by Kath-pdx on August 31, 2005 10:32 PM
Besides plumbing the depths of your wisdom one pest at a time, [scaredy] [gabby] is there a good source of what natural or other remedies are good for what pests? [critic] a list?

Or - for my problem (this one, with the mites! [perplexed] ) - is simple mild diluted soap enough?

I'm thinking surgery is also in store for my horizontal branch, so I'll stick with soap unless I hear back since I'm about to stress that poor baby drastically.

("Sick days off of work are for plant care at home!") [lala]
by Will Creed on September 01, 2005 02:48 AM
I have written an article on safe and effective treatment of the most common indoor plant pests.

I will e-mail the article to anyone who sends a request to me at wcreed@HorticulturalHelp.com

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