posted
There seems to be a bit of conflicting information out there on this. Would you guys please share your opinion/experiences with these plants? They will be going on the southside of an apricot tree with about an 8 ft. canopy from the trunk.
Wild Blue Indigo Bleeding Heart Crazy Daisy Purple Coneflower White Swan Coneflower Shasta Daisy Coreopsis Early Sunrise Garden Phlox
Feel free to share any suggestions!
bbbbbbbbb Sarah - Zone 5b/6 Posts: 662 | From: Ks, USA | Registered: May 2006
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joclyn
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posted
i've got purple coneflower and i have to say, they do much better in a high-sun area. also, they need good air circulation to grow properly.
i knew that to begin with...i split mine out this past season and found out that where i moved some of them to doesn't have the best air circulation (they grew and flowered - they just didn't get as tall as the others). previous and new locations all get sun virutally all day long.
afaik, the shasta daisy need a good amount of sun too. i just got one this past season, so that one is a bit new for me...i put it in a spot where it gets sun starting about noon and then on through sunset.
posted
I know from a costly experience that Garden Phlox really need a lot of air circulation and sun too, unless they are some of the mildew-resistent variety. Powdery mildew ruined several of my favorite varieties of pink Phlox!
bbbbbbbbb "Lord, I love you and I need you, come into my heart, and bless me, my family, my home, and my friends, in Jesus' name. Amen!" Posts: 6492 | From: Illinois | Registered: Feb 2006
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posted
Air circulation in KS is not an issue. Typical summer breeze is around 20 mph and that's on a "calm" day! There won't be much of a wind-block for this garden either.
So I guess I'll put several of those plants out in full sun. Now I just gotta figure out what to put in their place.
bbbbbbbbb Sarah - Zone 5b/6 Posts: 662 | From: Ks, USA | Registered: May 2006
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Sarah, have you ever thought about using Astilbe? I have several of those in my shade garden and they add a little color. Of course, I love the foliage, too!
bbbbbbbbb "Lord, I love you and I need you, come into my heart, and bless me, my family, my home, and my friends, in Jesus' name. Amen!" Posts: 6492 | From: Illinois | Registered: Feb 2006
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posted
I actually had thought about using Astilbe. But I've been reading a lot of books about garden design and I think that the foliage is too close to that of my "accent" plant. After doing some reading, I've totally re-vamped my shade garden using these plants (listed from back to front). Great Solomon's Seal Bleeding Heart Japanese Painted Fern (Hosta's on either side) Wild Ginger
Plus off to one side, there will be some liriope and black violas, and the other side will have coleus and columbine. Oh, and I've got these lily of the valley that my hubby buried under about 4 feet of sand that I'm going to dig up and put over there too. Let me see if I can get my layout uploaded...
bbbbbbbbb Sarah - Zone 5b/6 Posts: 662 | From: Ks, USA | Registered: May 2006
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Consider adding Lungwort to your bed, it has large deep green leaves with white spots and would give some texture to the fine or spiky foliage of the bleeding heart and liriope.
Re-think Lily of the valley if near enough to this bed to invade it. It can become a real problem. Its good for around a shaded utility pole or in a pot sunk in the ground.
Although tempting, it is hard on an established tree when plants are added under its canopy. Avoid damage to any feeder or stabilizing roots. Trees require lots of moisture, any perennials will need extra attention. A few inches of mulch on the finished bed will benefit tree and perennial.
Posts: 29 | From: Macomb MI | Registered: Feb 2007
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posted
herbalyn, do you think that the spots on the foliage of lungwort (what a name!) would distract from the J. Painted fern, which is the only "light" colored plant in the garden? Or does this just add visual interest? Thanks for the tip about the lily of the valley, I hadn't realized they were invasive, mine are very well behaved (*neglected).
I had planned on using a few bales of alfalfa, broken up, for mulch, which a soaker hose under that. Plus will be getting about 2 inches (at most, so as not to suffocate the tree) good topsoil to help out both tree and perennial.
bbbbbbbbb Sarah - Zone 5b/6 Posts: 662 | From: Ks, USA | Registered: May 2006
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Sarah, your new garden plan layout looks great and I think you've chosen some good plants for your Shade Garden.
quote: Thanks for the tip about the lily of the valley, I hadn't realized they were invasive, mine are very well behaved (*neglected).
Actually, I didn't realize that either until a few years ago when I was digging to put in some new plants and was shocked to see the spiderweb of roots from the Lily-of-the Valley. Geesh, they were everywhere!
bbbbbbbbb "Lord, I love you and I need you, come into my heart, and bless me, my family, my home, and my friends, in Jesus' name. Amen!" Posts: 6492 | From: Illinois | Registered: Feb 2006
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posted
All shade gardens need some foliage or annual flowers with white or pale lilac to brighen the area and draw in light. Consider lungwort as a focal point surrounded by the bleeding heart for texture and to make the "hearts" pop. As bleeding heart dies back lungwort is there to fill the space. Place out the containers before planting and rotate light and dark foliage to your liking. Look at coral bells when you purchase your plants. Plum pudding is burgandy with silve markings. Plant with ginger on either side to break up all that green.
I am a fan of soaker hoses. They are under the mulch in all my beds.
Avoid adding a layer of topsoil under the tree canopy. Do you have access to compost? It may be available from a local nursery. Even a few buckets would be better for the planting holes than topsoil. If you can't find compost then stick with the alfalfa. Add in 2 inches layers, let soil critters break it down and add as needed to maintain a 2 inch layer.
Your shade garden will be a cool oasis come the heat of summer.
Posts: 29 | From: Macomb MI | Registered: Feb 2007
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posted
I was using the japanese painted fern (silvery colored with wine stems) as the focal point for my garden with lots of medium-coarse textured plants to help highlight the fine foliage of JPF and the bleeding heart.
I absolutely love coral bells. The caramel one is my absolute favorite but I couldn't think of a way to work it in without throwing off the scheme of things, visually.
How do you keep your soaker hoses in place? Mine very difficult to situate and usually don't stay where I put them. I was thinking of cutting up some wire hangers into U shapes and using those to hold them in place.
The soil under the tree is difficult. NOthing grows there now because it is extremely compacted. I was hoping to rake the soil a few inches down (not tilling it, just trying to loosen) adding the topsoil so I wouldn't have to disturb those feeder roots.
bbbbbbbbb Sarah - Zone 5b/6 Posts: 662 | From: Ks, USA | Registered: May 2006
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On a warm day uncoil the soaker hose and lay it on a concrete drive or sidewalk. When the hose warms up straighten it out. May take a few trys.
I used to use snipped wire hanger corners to hold the hose. Wal-Mart has U shaped heavy wire garden staples. They come in a white cardboard box. The staples are also good to hold row cover.
Make a slight trough in the soil, lay in the straightened hose, pin down with a garden staple and cover with mulch. The soaker hose in my rose bed has been in place 5 years using this method.
Choose your plants at the nursery and take them to a spot where you can set out your design and study it. You may find room for the caramel coral bells between the ginger.
Posts: 29 | From: Macomb MI | Registered: Feb 2007
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posted
Coral Bells are beautiful and so light and airy! I put several in my shade gardens last year - 'Palace Purple', 'Key lime Pie' and 'Peach Melba'. Actually, I had only planned on buying one to replace the Helleborus that I lost, but you can never just buy one! The next one I get will be 'Amber Waves'!
bbbbbbbbb "Lord, I love you and I need you, come into my heart, and bless me, my family, my home, and my friends, in Jesus' name. Amen!" Posts: 6492 | From: Illinois | Registered: Feb 2006
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posted
herbalyn, thanks so much for that tip! I have had these soaker hoses for 2 years now and haven't used them because I couldn't get them to uncoil. It was really frustrating not being able to get them to lay how I needed them too.
Patches that is exactly what I'm afraid of. I really don't want to go back to my nursery when they actually have the plants I want. We are trying to garden "economically" and it's really difficult not to say, ahhh the heck with it! And buy everything I want!! Lol. Thank God for seed exchange, or we'd be very broke.
bbbbbbbbb Sarah - Zone 5b/6 Posts: 662 | From: Ks, USA | Registered: May 2006
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quote: I really don't want to go back to my nursery when they actually have the plants I want.
Sarah, I know what you mean because I feel the same way. It's probably better if I avoid those places but sometimes that's so hard to do. They have such pretty and interesting things there.
bbbbbbbbb "Lord, I love you and I need you, come into my heart, and bless me, my family, my home, and my friends, in Jesus' name. Amen!" Posts: 6492 | From: Illinois | Registered: Feb 2006
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quote:Originally posted by penny in ontario: I have that problem too Patti....you can never buy just one...you need a pair to keep eachother company, or thats what i tell myself
I always say that I need at least 2 plants, that way you get a nice area of the pretty plant. And, really, you need to buy 3 because, what if one dies? That way you are guaranteed 2 non-lonely, matching plants.
bbbbbbbbb Sarah - Zone 5b/6 Posts: 662 | From: Ks, USA | Registered: May 2006
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quote:really, you need to buy 3 because, what if one dies? That way you are guaranteed 2 non-lonely, matching plants.
Oh, Sarah, you're certainly my kind of person and I love the way you think! I believe this is an excellent idea and very well-thought out! Geesh, I would be foolish not to follow such wonderful advice.
Actually, one of the principles of landscape design is to plant flowers in odd-numbered clusters (e.g. three, five, seven, etc.) for better visual impact.
bbbbbbbbb "Lord, I love you and I need you, come into my heart, and bless me, my family, my home, and my friends, in Jesus' name. Amen!" Posts: 6492 | From: Illinois | Registered: Feb 2006
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quote:I believe this is an excellent idea and very well-thought out! Geesh, I would be foolish not to follow such wonderful advice.
Now, if I could just get my husband to say that, I would be one happy woman! He looks at the price and says, "put the plant down and slowly walk away." And I'm thinking: DO WHAT?
bbbbbbbbb Sarah - Zone 5b/6 Posts: 662 | From: Ks, USA | Registered: May 2006
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quote:He looks at the price and says, "put the plant down and slowly walk away." And I'm thinking: DO WHAT?
Sarah, I can understand that feeling because it's so hard to walk away from a plant you like, but husbands are sometimes a tough hurdle to jump! Maybe you can make a "Wish List" and he could use it when he wanted to buy you a special gift.
bbbbbbbbb "Lord, I love you and I need you, come into my heart, and bless me, my family, my home, and my friends, in Jesus' name. Amen!" Posts: 6492 | From: Illinois | Registered: Feb 2006
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posted
Originally posted by patches1414: I know from a costly experience that Garden Phlox really need a lot of air circulation and sun too, unless they are some of the mildew-resistent variety. Powdery mildew ruined several of my favorite varieties of pink Phlox!
i have tons of phlox they can grow in sun or shade, when their in sun, the sun lightens their color and when thier in shade their color is deep, also fight with the mildew. you gotta get it right at the start. i spray mine down with 4 tabspoons baking soda, 2 tabspoons, murphys oil soap [or dish soap] in 1 gal of warm water. it works wonders!!!
quote:fight with the mildew. you gotta get it right at the start. i spray mine down with 4 tabspoons baking soda, 2 tabspoons, murphys oil soap [or dish soap] in 1 gal of warm water. it works wonders!!!
Thanks a bunch, Sibyl! This is certainly worth a try. I remember someone once told me to use baking soda and water, but when it rains, it just washes it off. I guess the Murphys Oil Soap would help keep the mixture on the plant. Of course, I know there are chemicals you can use, but I really don't like to use things like that in my garden. What time of day do you apply this?
Whenever I buy any new Phlox I've been going with the mildew-resistant ones, but I'm not about to get rid of the other ones in my garden.
bbbbbbbbb "Lord, I love you and I need you, come into my heart, and bless me, my family, my home, and my friends, in Jesus' name. Amen!" Posts: 6492 | From: Illinois | Registered: Feb 2006
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Sibyl, I'm glad that you like my little graphy thing. I have nothing better to do with my time. I actually was going to use 'paint' to make mine but then I remembered a site from that statistics class that has an easy, easy application for making graphs, so I made one, copied it into word and then used the cute little 'drawing' toolbar to make everything else. It's really easy to do, especially if you like to tinker with things.
bbbbbbbbb Sarah - Zone 5b/6 Posts: 662 | From: Ks, USA | Registered: May 2006
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posted
patches i spray em in the mornings. i start doing this at early groth, its made a big diffrence, i use to get so much meldew before! it drove me crazy! i dont like buying chemicals either, they have so much **** in em ya dont realy need and is usaly harmful. the m-oil soap, dish soap, [even baby shampoo] helps keep the solition on the plants and also works as a cleaner with the b-soda. and their not harmful in any way to you or your plants.i have pllox in my rose bushes, in the driveway,, down the bottom ,,in my shade area,, and in the back yard. yep i love phlox! their one of my fav cutting flowers caose their pretty and smell so good!
sara i had so much fun tinkering withthe paint! i made a folder with all my drawings and a seeds and plant list in it! makes it so much eaiser to plan for this spring!
quote:i spray em in the mornings. i start doing this at early groth, its made a big diffrence,
Sibyl, are you saying that you spray them before you even see any powdery mildew to act as a preventative measure? How often do you spray them? I am really excited about this because my Bee Balm gets it too!
bbbbbbbbb "Lord, I love you and I need you, come into my heart, and bless me, my family, my home, and my friends, in Jesus' name. Amen!" Posts: 6492 | From: Illinois | Registered: Feb 2006
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posted
Sibyl, I am really excited about trying this! How often do you do it? Do you do it on a regular basis or just whenever? Do you spray the undersides of the leaves too, or just the tops? Inquiring minds want to know!
bbbbbbbbb "Lord, I love you and I need you, come into my heart, and bless me, my family, my home, and my friends, in Jesus' name. Amen!" Posts: 6492 | From: Illinois | Registered: Feb 2006
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posted
ive done this every year since i learned about it. i also spray under the leaves too. i spray at a regular basis in the beginning.maybe 1-3 times per week. and whenever by the end of summer. the trick is to get to the mildew before it gets to your phlox or anyother plant. cause once its there it can spred like crazy.if theres a spot thats realy bad i just snip it off and toss it out in the trash.
posted
Sibyl, you're a gem! Powdery Mildew has been one of the most challenging dilemmas in my gardens because it attacks one of my favorite flowers. I have some pink Phlox that I dearly love and I'm constantly fighting with it. I also have Phlox 'David', but since it's mildew-resistant, so far, I haven't experienced any problems with it.
bbbbbbbbb "Lord, I love you and I need you, come into my heart, and bless me, my family, my home, and my friends, in Jesus' name. Amen!" Posts: 6492 | From: Illinois | Registered: Feb 2006
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I have several of those in my shade garden and they add a little color. ![[flower]](graemlins/flower.gif)
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Of course, I love the foliage, too! ![[Love]](graemlins/love.gif)
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until a few years ago when I was digging to put in some new plants and was shocked ![[shocked]](graemlins/shock.gif)
to see the spiderweb of roots from the Lily-of-the Valley. Geesh, they were everywhere! ![[Eek!]](eek.gif)
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They have such pretty and interesting things there. 
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I believe this is an excellent idea and very well-thought out! ![[grin]](graemlins/grinnnn.gif)
He looks at the price and says, "put the plant down and slowly walk away." And I'm thinking: DO WHAT? ![[thinker]](graemlins/idea.gif)
