posted
Hey, Catlover, remember when you gave me advice on thinning my cape honeysuckle? Can you (or anyone else) take a look at this pic, and tell me if you think I can thin it out sevrely and get it looking nice again? Thanks!
bbbbbbbbb
From: Van Nuys, CA | Registered: Sep 2004
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Okie Dokie...on the top pix all the way to the left on photo...you can reach in and nab some way down to open it up. Does the sun shine from this side of the shot? Are you are making a shorter open hedge?
That top stuff is going to shoot straight up....and lean in different directions....if you want a lot of branches leave as is...if you want fewer branches go in and cut some out...especially in the first pix to the left.
If you want the base to be full..(all green)...let the sides go and everyonce in awhile use a hedge clipper and cut the ends off...that way it will force more growth on the sides and it will fill in. If not much sun touches this side of the bush then angle with the hedge trimmers so the base is wider than the top.
What do you want the plant to do??? Probably should of asked that first???
bbbbbbbbb
From: California | Registered: Mar 2003
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Okay, let's see. First I should have probably said- When we start the Big Backyard Project (possibly mid-November), we're going to have to paint that wall. So number one, we gotta be able to get through those branches.
Then we're going to need to level our yard, because right now it slopes toward our house, and the extra dirt is going to need to go in there, right where those vines are growing, behind a short retaining wall, maybe about a foot high.
THEN, I'd like to have the vines grow up along the fence, rather than sticking out in the yard, which they do now. Maybe along an espalier or lattice. I do want them to be green along the bottom and front, because I think all those branches are ugly-lookin'. (I've been cutting them back to the height they're at now just because that's the way they're been trimmed for years, judging by how all the old cut-off branches. Up till a few weeks ago, I didn't have the tools that would even cut through most of those bigger branches. Now I've got a good sturdy lopper that'll get most of them.)
Sooo... That wall behind the vines is on their west. They get morning and some afternoon sun, but in the summer our tree has huge leaves and they only get filtered sun.
So I want them to be a lot more viney and a lot less branchy, and I get what you're saying about thinning the out, especially the really clumpy part. You think they'll survive being cut back that heavily, along with having and extra foor of dirt dumped on them? And I do want to leaves to be lower, but I'm not sure I'm getting what you mean about the angle cuts?
Thanks a lot for your help!!
bbbbbbbbb
From: Van Nuys, CA | Registered: Sep 2004
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posted
First off I have no idea about dumping more soil on them???? That's a big I don't know!
"IF" it were me and I wanted them espalier(ed) <is that a word?> and I was redoing the whole area...painting wall etc....I would go in and keep only the biggest thickest branches that are about 4-5ft apart and cut as far down as possible (in the ground even)any side shoots....like stripping a wooden stick. I don't know how tall you want the plant to go ...or if there is something you don't want to see on the other side of the fence. Now you can get in there to paint the fence.
I will be asking you about the fence painting later. tee hee hee I know there is a special concrete paint and rollers etc. that can be used.
Okay, so the fence is painted ...then you can do the dirt thing. "I" probably wouldn't use a wood lattice like they normally sell...since it is espalier...it will get heavy and you need something for you to train it to... I would probably place two poles(if you anchor with concrete you can add baskets, bird feeders, bird house, etc to the poles...just an idea) on each end and sink them pretty deep....attach wire???? every so many feet from pole to pole(horizontally)....then go vertically from top wire to bottom wire where you want the next branches to come straight up.(I would do a simple sketch to see exactly how many wires to attach....guess you could add the vertical wires as you go...but try to get both sides mirror image...also remember the more limbs you have going the more work ). Then use either old nylons or the green strapping tape that stretches to attach the limbs gently to the wire. As you know the branches will get thick so keep them loose. You may want to tie and then retie later or even take some of them off as it stays put and only anchor certain limbs.
Then as the new growth comes in....you should get tons of babies starting out all over...strip the ones you don't want...and only use(guess it would be north and south positioned limbs...attach loosely and DO NOT tip trim that branch until you have the desired length you want. Again strip all the babies you don't want or leave them very small and just hedge trim those(which will make them fill in)....but you will have to stay after them.
Espalier(ing) takes time to get the results you want and it also takes coming out every once in awhile and spending some time....but the pay off is great.
The part about the angle...if you don't have much light on the bottom of a hedge you want to make sure you clip at an angle(bigger on bottom and taper to top) to allow more light to shine on the bottom because the top with shade the bottom and you won't have leaves below that...it won't fill in properly.
Now....some people use wood attached to the individual limbs going north and south....up and down(instead of the wire)...but this will have a lot of weight. Later on you should be able to really loosen up on the straps because the limb will be a lot thicker.
Orrrrr...you could anchor to the brick wall...???? maybe with eye screws ????? How close you want it to the wall and if you want it attached at all would determine which route you would take.
The whole thing will look lets just say like cr*p for awhile but it will come back....I just don't know about covering the base of the plant by a foot...???????
The height you leave that main starter trunk should remain the same ...so whatever ht. you decide then keep it there...just let it fill with leaves...keep pruning or you will have 10-15 ft. branches coming off of it.
The branches will set on new leaves all over so trim to length you want them to stay or grow out toward you...remember they flower and the hummingbirds lovvvve them...so you want them to have a little length. Leave enough room for your arm to reach through to trim the backside.....or just keep the back side of each limb stripped.
If they happen to die I will get some starters going for you. LOL Then you get to start all over again!!!
You sure you want to espalier???? Sorry about the MEGA book, bad grammar, wishy washy thoughts...tried to get the thoughts down as they came.
I don't know how tall that wall is but my guess would be either 2 or 3 horizontal wires?????
Well now that you have read this madness....whatcha going to do???? Catlover
bbbbbbbbb
From: California | Registered: Mar 2003
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WOw, thanks for all the great advice. No, actually, I'm NOT sure I want to espalier them-- I'm still not sure about anything at this point. Now I get what you meana bout trimming at an angle- thanks for the explanation. I'm gonna come back and post ideas for how I'm gonna end up cutting them, but I'm still trying to formulate the plans...
bbbbbbbbb
From: Van Nuys, CA | Registered: Sep 2004
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posted
Bet that was mega hard to understand. ...hard to write it down and much easier to show in person. Sorry! Alot of work huh!
If you want to make a shrub I would just take some limbs out that are by the wall to give you room to paint...and then lower the top about 1/2 (unless you are trying to block something ugly on the other side of the fence ) ...that way you have plenty of branches to come up and you can trim easier....as it grows in just take a hedge trimmer to all sides to thicken the green area and it will fill in nicely.
I will get some starters going now...as not all will take... and if filling the area in with dirt kills them then I will mail them to you!
Have a great day! Catlover
bbbbbbbbb
From: California | Registered: Mar 2003
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Okay, it looks like we're starting The Project next week. If these are the existing big branches, and we trim the to, say, the top of the fence (because there ARE uglies behind the wall we don't want to look at), will they grow new branches along the sides AND top, like this?:
And how do you get new ones started? Can I start new ones off of the branches I trim, and if so, can you tell me how? Thanks! I'm also going to start a new post to see if anyone knows if adding the foot of dirt will hurt them...
bbbbbbbbb
From: Van Nuys, CA | Registered: Sep 2004
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posted
Not clear if you want these to be hedges and the top sprawling????
If you want a hedge you won't need to clean them out as far as the top pix....they will actually fill in faster with greenery if you leave how they are and just tip cut all ends when they are about 2-3 inches....if you use a hedge trimmer just zoom up and down the sides and top and it will fill in nicely and then you can let whatever branches you want to sprawl and flower.
If they are already trimmed out like the pix...then it will take much longer to fill in. This is hard to explain...and I don't have a digital camera. ...The main trunk is only going to set off a few new leaves....that section with the leave is going to be a branch....if you want a hedge keep tip clipping and it will force that branch to set out 2 or 3 new leaves and those will become branches. Oh I hope that made sense.....The sprawling like you had before...those were individual leaves that started out and nobody came through and tip clipped them...thus one big branch.
The plant is going to want to shoot out the top first....(and if not trimmed back and left will shoot a good 8-10 feet)...if for the first several cuttings you tip clip then when it gets bigger you can just cut to the fence level the branches you want to sprawl out. By tip clipping in the beginning you are going to force the plant to produce more side leaves.
How do they stand now? What are you trying to achieve? Are you trying to thin them out or back them more to the fence line???
I would just remove some branches to the base that are next to the wall...so you can get in there to paint....and leave how they are....and just use the hedge trimmers for awhile until they fill in. That way they will have more greenery to start off with and the hedge is already established. Remember a little wider at the base and taper up...even on the sides....once it fills in you won't hardly notice the tapering.
Oh my...did that make any sense? Oh yeah....cuttings....take a few ends that are approx. 6-8 inches long...you don't want the really new green that will flop over and you don't want to go down too far and get the hard wood. Strip the lower leaves and immediately place in water...once you start to see new roots don't leave in water very long or they will flop over and die. Then I placed them in a good compost/soil mix and some started ...some didn't. There are probably other ways to propagate them but that is how I did mine with reasonable success....think I started 10 using different methods such as rootone etc. and wound up with 6. Catlover
bbbbbbbbb
From: California | Registered: Mar 2003
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More info on Tecomaria capensis....cape honeysuckle.
I was just reading in desert tropicals that it can be cut to ground every few years preventing it from becoming too leggy and woody! Can propagate by seeds/softwood/and semi hardwood any time of the year.
Balanced fertilizer after pruning will enhance growth and flowering...I use triple 15 maybe every 6 mo....not into using a lot of fertilizers.
Once established a good soaking once a month is all that is needed.
A couple of useful sites I just found. desert tropicals Floridata Now this site has a caterpillar that eats honeysuckle...hadn't a clue...kinda similar looking to a tomato worm...Now I'll be looking for these. Click on the death's head hawkmoth link...I have seen some of those around here. museums.org Hmmm....you can even trim to be like a tree...now I might just have to try this one! horticopia Catlover
bbbbbbbbb
From: California | Registered: Mar 2003
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Okay, let me see... I haven't trimmed it any more yet, it still looks like the photos- Good thing, I guess! Let's say I want to keep it looking hedgy. Right now, the problem is when it is bloomin, it looks like this... with all bare branches along the fence, and all the leaves and flowers starting about the top of the fence and going up. So if I want to keep it hedgy, but green all the way from top to bottom, should I cut different branches to different heights, like this?: And then, if I'm understanding you, new branches will sprout a couple of inches below where I cut each of the old branches? And whenever I see it start to put out leaves, I cut it back again to make it make more branches?
I'm REALLY SORRY to be such a pest, I'm just a total beginner at this. Up till we got this house, the only plants I ever grew were in pots, so I have no clue about hedges and bushes and the like.
BTW, the photo where they cut it to look like a tree looks GREAT.
bbbbbbbbb
From: Van Nuys, CA | Registered: Sep 2004
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Oops...sawwy charlie ....I went out several times to check to see what I had done on mine and Poof it went out the otherside of my brain.
Okay,....ready for this...LOL...J/k...lets see if I can make this less than 5,000 words. ...keep the hedge shape....but you have room to back it up...so take your loppers and start at the bottom...clip so more ends are showing at different heights but remember to taper it going up. So like your bottom pix but just the sides of the hedge itself....not much growth is going to be in the middle and it won't stay very long anway....once the outside is filled in, it will just be more "dead LOOKING" sticks (no they aren't really dead)...when all sides start sending out new growth ...wait until they are at minimum 2-3 in. long and then use your hedge trimmer and slice right up the sides...keeping that beveled shape for sun purposes. Keep hedging the top and after awhile it will fill in nicely and then you can let whatever shoots fly up and lean with their wt.....and they will get HIGH....when ready to trim those just go back to the original size of the hedge and lop it off...you can do it in stages to keep your screen up(so the uglies don't show)...as well as...keep some flowers on for the hummingbirds. Oh boy am I reaching the 5,000 point yet. It will look crappy for awhile but not to worry...and like I said if all else fails I have some in the ground that are ready to be moved so I can dig those up for you as well as some new starters here shortly. Let me know if that didn't make any sense at all. A lot of the growth depends on how much sun that area gets....the backside of mine take forever to fill in because the trees shade the one side....it is filling in but slow. Since this is a vine...doesn't look like it by the size of the branches does it... ...I am GUESSING it will do alright when you dump the soil....Will see...if yours don't make it ...we will all have learned something....as what NOT to do. It is supposed to rain tonight and the next few days here in N. San Diego...I don't know about your area....don't be out there with those metal loppers when it is lightening. ...let me know if you have anymore questions. And you are NOT a pest!!!
bbbbbbbbb
From: California | Registered: Mar 2003
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That's a big I don't know!![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
). Then use either old nylons or the green strapping tape that stretches to attach the limbs gently to the wire. As you know the branches will get thick so keep them loose. You may want to tie and then retie later or even take some of them off as it stays put and only anchor certain limbs.![[Frown]](frown.gif)
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Alot of work huh!![[kitty]](graemlins/kitty.gif)
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...The main trunk is only going to set off a few new leaves....that section with the leave is going to be a branch....if you want a hedge keep tip clipping and it will force that branch to set out 2 or 3 new leaves and those will become branches. Oh I hope that made sense.....The sprawling like you had before...those were individual leaves that started out and nobody came through and tip clipped them...thus one big branch.![[shocked]](graemlins/shock.gif)
with all bare branches along the fence, and all the leaves and flowers starting about the top of the fence and going up. So if I want to keep it hedgy, but green all the way from top to bottom, should I cut different branches to different heights, like this?: 
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....I went out several times to check to see what I had done on mine and Poof it went out the otherside of my brain.![[scaredy]](graemlins/scaredy.gif)
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